Discussion:
Best way to provide conversion data
(too old to reply)
Rick Mason
2014-10-07 14:58:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a different
platform....not sure which one yet.
This particular application has one library but many files that drives the
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Have I confused everyone? :)
--
Thanks
Rick
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Charles Wilt
2014-10-07 15:04:00 UTC
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DSPFFD is probably a decent choice for documenting the field info...

Another choice would be to use iNav to retrieve the SQL source for the
tables.

As far as data extraction, FTP is probably NOT going to work for you as it
doesn't handle packed data.

IBM's CPYTOIMPF is a quick and dirty solution...

Mostly depends on what the vendor can handle vs. what you are comfortable
providing.
Post by Rick Mason
Hi,
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a different
platform....not sure which one yet.
This particular application has one library but many files that drives the
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Have I confused everyone? :)
--
Thanks
Rick
--
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Holger Scherer
2014-10-07 15:04:31 UTC
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Depends on the vendor(s)...
you also might use Navigator to create SQL output. DSPFFD and CPYTOIMPF also can be of help.
Later data transfer after you selected the vendor also depends on their abilities...

-h
Post by Rick Mason
Hi,
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a different
platform....not sure which one yet.
This particular application has one library but many files that drives the
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Have I confused everyone? :)
--
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Buck Calabro
2014-10-07 15:52:33 UTC
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Post by Rick Mason
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a different
platform....not sure which one yet.
If you aren't sure which one yet, then why not replace the AS/400 with a
new POWER 8? It'll run all that old AS/400 stuff as well as all the new
web stuff you can think of!
Post by Rick Mason
This particular application has one library but many files that drives the
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Having done many conversions TO the midrange platform, the things I find
most useful are some sort of data dictionary, a list of the main tables
in the application along with their relationships (primary and foreign
keys) and an 80-80 list of the first 50 records like CPYF OUTPUT(*PRINT)
OUTFMT(*HEX) might produce.
Post by Rick Mason
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Generally speaking, a conversion won't be using every one of your files.
That is, they won't be taking your database and writing a new Windows
(for example) front end to it. They'll be taking your data and
converting it and importing that to their database. And when I say
'data' I don't mean the entire library, I mean your customer file, your
product master file, your sales history file and so on. The important
ones, probably fewer than 50 all told.

Only your chosen vendor can tell you what they need and how to get it to
them. In my vanity, I will say that I believe the better vendors will
take any format you can provide. I got a lot of raw tables - packed
decimal and all but I also got a lot of CSV files where the data is
viewable in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Sometimes those files are
small enough to email around, sometimes FTP is better. Unless they are
a midrange vendor they won't be able to use a SAVLIB on a tape.
--buck
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Rick Mason
2014-10-07 15:59:26 UTC
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Hi Buck,
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen
and again...the peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
The same thing happened 8 years ago when a worked at a hospital,
the vendor presented a lot of "Pretty" screens but when things were
converted off of the AS400....they had more server related issues than ever
before......they realized maybe they should have given it a touch more
thought.
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a
different
Post by Rick Mason
platform....not sure which one yet.
If you aren't sure which one yet, then why not replace the AS/400 with a
new POWER 8? It'll run all that old AS/400 stuff as well as all the new
web stuff you can think of!
Post by Rick Mason
This particular application has one library but many files that drives
the
Post by Rick Mason
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Having done many conversions TO the midrange platform, the things I find
most useful are some sort of data dictionary, a list of the main tables
in the application along with their relationships (primary and foreign
keys) and an 80-80 list of the first 50 records like CPYF OUTPUT(*PRINT)
OUTFMT(*HEX) might produce.
Post by Rick Mason
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Generally speaking, a conversion won't be using every one of your files.
That is, they won't be taking your database and writing a new Windows
(for example) front end to it. They'll be taking your data and
converting it and importing that to their database. And when I say
'data' I don't mean the entire library, I mean your customer file, your
product master file, your sales history file and so on. The important
ones, probably fewer than 50 all told.
Only your chosen vendor can tell you what they need and how to get it to
them. In my vanity, I will say that I believe the better vendors will
take any format you can provide. I got a lot of raw tables - packed
decimal and all but I also got a lot of CSV files where the data is
viewable in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Sometimes those files are
small enough to email around, sometimes FTP is better. Unless they are
a midrange vendor they won't be able to use a SAVLIB on a tape.
--buck
--
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--
Thanks
Rick
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Paul Nelson
2014-10-07 16:04:18 UTC
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Does your current software do what it needs to do? There are lots of
modernization tools out there. One of my old clients went with
www.looksoftware.com

He fooled management into thinking he switched to a Windows based system.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Rick
Mason
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Best way to provide conversion data

Hi Buck,
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen
and again...the peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
The same thing happened 8 years ago when a worked at a hospital,
the vendor presented a lot of "Pretty" screens but when things were
converted off of the AS400....they had more server related issues than ever
before......they realized maybe they should have given it a touch more
thought.
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a
different
Post by Rick Mason
platform....not sure which one yet.
If you aren't sure which one yet, then why not replace the AS/400 with a
new POWER 8? It'll run all that old AS/400 stuff as well as all the new
web stuff you can think of!
Post by Rick Mason
This particular application has one library but many files that drives
the
Post by Rick Mason
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Having done many conversions TO the midrange platform, the things I find
most useful are some sort of data dictionary, a list of the main tables
in the application along with their relationships (primary and foreign
keys) and an 80-80 list of the first 50 records like CPYF OUTPUT(*PRINT)
OUTFMT(*HEX) might produce.
Post by Rick Mason
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Generally speaking, a conversion won't be using every one of your files.
That is, they won't be taking your database and writing a new Windows
(for example) front end to it. They'll be taking your data and
converting it and importing that to their database. And when I say
'data' I don't mean the entire library, I mean your customer file, your
product master file, your sales history file and so on. The important
ones, probably fewer than 50 all told.
Only your chosen vendor can tell you what they need and how to get it to
them. In my vanity, I will say that I believe the better vendors will
take any format you can provide. I got a lot of raw tables - packed
decimal and all but I also got a lot of CSV files where the data is
viewable in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Sometimes those files are
small enough to email around, sometimes FTP is better. Unless they are
a midrange vendor they won't be able to use a SAVLIB on a tape.
--buck
--
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at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
--
Thanks
Rick
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Jerry Adams
2014-10-07 19:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
PHB obviously. You'll burn in @#$% for that, obviously.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM i Programmer/Analyst
There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolong warefare.
-Sun Tzu
--
NMM&D
615-832-2730


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Nelson
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:04 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Best way to provide conversion data

Does your current software do what it needs to do? There are lots of
modernization tools out there. One of my old clients went with
www.looksoftware.com

He fooled management into thinking he switched to a Windows based system.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Rick
Mason
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Best way to provide conversion data

Hi Buck,
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen and again...the
peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
The same thing happened 8 years ago when a worked at a hospital, the vendor
presented a lot of "Pretty" screens but when things were converted off of
the AS400....they had more server related issues than ever before......they
realized maybe they should have given it a touch more thought.
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a
different
Post by Rick Mason
platform....not sure which one yet.
If you aren't sure which one yet, then why not replace the AS/400 with
a new POWER 8? It'll run all that old AS/400 stuff as well as all the
new web stuff you can think of!
Post by Rick Mason
This particular application has one library but many files that drives
the
Post by Rick Mason
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Having done many conversions TO the midrange platform, the things I
find most useful are some sort of data dictionary, a list of the main
tables in the application along with their relationships (primary and
foreign
keys) and an 80-80 list of the first 50 records like CPYF
OUTPUT(*PRINT)
OUTFMT(*HEX) might produce.
Post by Rick Mason
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data
for conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should
the
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Generally speaking, a conversion won't be using every one of your files.
That is, they won't be taking your database and writing a new Windows
(for example) front end to it. They'll be taking your data and
converting it and importing that to their database. And when I say
'data' I don't mean the entire library, I mean your customer file,
your product master file, your sales history file and so on. The
important ones, probably fewer than 50 all told.
Only your chosen vendor can tell you what they need and how to get it
to them. In my vanity, I will say that I believe the better vendors
will take any format you can provide. I got a lot of raw tables -
packed decimal and all but I also got a lot of CSV files where the
data is viewable in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Sometimes those
files are small enough to email around, sometimes FTP is better.
Unless they are a midrange vendor they won't be able to use a SAVLIB on a
tape.
Post by Rick Mason
--buck
--
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unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
a moment to review the archives at
http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
--
Thanks
Rick
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--
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Paul Nelson
2014-10-07 19:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
PHB?

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jerry
Adams
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 2:05 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Best way to provide conversion data

PHB obviously. You'll burn in @#$% for that, obviously.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM i Programmer/Analyst
There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolong warefare.
-Sun Tzu
--
NMM&D
615-832-2730


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Nelson
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:04 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Best way to provide conversion data

Does your current software do what it needs to do? There are lots of
modernization tools out there. One of my old clients went with
www.looksoftware.com

He fooled management into thinking he switched to a Windows based system.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Rick
Mason
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Best way to provide conversion data

Hi Buck,
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen and again...the
peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
The same thing happened 8 years ago when a worked at a hospital, the vendor
presented a lot of "Pretty" screens but when things were converted off of
the AS400....they had more server related issues than ever before......they
realized maybe they should have given it a touch more thought.
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a
different
Post by Rick Mason
platform....not sure which one yet.
If you aren't sure which one yet, then why not replace the AS/400 with
a new POWER 8? It'll run all that old AS/400 stuff as well as all the
new web stuff you can think of!
Post by Rick Mason
This particular application has one library but many files that drives
the
Post by Rick Mason
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Having done many conversions TO the midrange platform, the things I
find most useful are some sort of data dictionary, a list of the main
tables in the application along with their relationships (primary and
foreign
keys) and an 80-80 list of the first 50 records like CPYF
OUTPUT(*PRINT)
OUTFMT(*HEX) might produce.
Post by Rick Mason
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data
for conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should
the
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Generally speaking, a conversion won't be using every one of your files.
That is, they won't be taking your database and writing a new Windows
(for example) front end to it. They'll be taking your data and
converting it and importing that to their database. And when I say
'data' I don't mean the entire library, I mean your customer file,
your product master file, your sales history file and so on. The
important ones, probably fewer than 50 all told.
Only your chosen vendor can tell you what they need and how to get it
to them. In my vanity, I will say that I believe the better vendors
will take any format you can provide. I got a lot of raw tables -
packed decimal and all but I also got a lot of CSV files where the
data is viewable in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Sometimes those
files are small enough to email around, sometimes FTP is better.
Unless they are a midrange vendor they won't be able to use a SAVLIB on a
tape.
Post by Rick Mason
--buck
--
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
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visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
a moment to review the archives at
http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
--
Thanks
Rick
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John Yeung
2014-10-07 19:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
PHB?
Pointy-haired boss. A la Dilbert's boss.

John Y.
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Paul Nelson
2014-10-07 19:50:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Ah

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John
Yeung
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 2:44 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Best way to provide conversion data
PHB?
Pointy-haired boss. A la Dilbert's boss.

John Y.
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Vernon Hamberg
2014-10-07 20:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Jerry is the purveyor of acronyms in these parts - he introduced me
(us?) to GHK, too. (green-haired kid)
Post by John Yeung
PHB?
Pointy-haired boss. A la Dilbert's boss.
John Y.
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Steve Landess
2014-10-17 22:20:48 UTC
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I suppose that makes me the NHFF...
-sjl

"Vernon Hamberg" wrote in message news:mailman.5139.1412714367.8590.midrange-l-***@public.gmane.org

Jerry is the purveyor of acronyms in these parts - he introduced me
(us?) to GHK, too. (green-haired kid)
Post by John Yeung
PHB?
Pointy-haired boss. A la Dilbert's boss.
John Y.
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Paul Nelson
2014-10-17 22:37:07 UTC
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Raw Message
That would be me. You're the BUFF..................

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Landess
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2014 5:21 PM
To: midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: Best way to provide conversion data

I suppose that makes me the NHFF...
-sjl

"Vernon Hamberg" wrote in message news:mailman.5139.1412714367.8590.midrange-l-***@public.gmane.org

Jerry is the purveyor of acronyms in these parts - he introduced me
(us?) to GHK, too. (green-haired kid)
Post by John Yeung
PHB?
Pointy-haired boss. A la Dilbert's boss.
John Y.
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Paul Nelson
2014-10-07 19:57:22 UTC
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Now that I know what you meant, I suppose you're right.

The PHB was a 30-something CFO who was into spreadsheets, radio buttons and
scroll bars. The IT director was over 60 and uninterested in yet another
conversion. The Look Software solution allowed him to tell the CFO that he
had found a Windows based system for less than $30K and not even have to
change servers.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jerry
Adams
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 2:05 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Best way to provide conversion data

PHB obviously. You'll burn in @#$% for that, obviously.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM i Programmer/Analyst
There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolong warefare.
-Sun Tzu
--
NMM&D
615-832-2730


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Nelson
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:04 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: Best way to provide conversion data

Does your current software do what it needs to do? There are lots of
modernization tools out there. One of my old clients went with
www.looksoftware.com

He fooled management into thinking he switched to a Windows based system.

Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 409-267-4027
nelsonp-***@public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Rick
Mason
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 10:59 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Best way to provide conversion data

Hi Buck,
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen and again...the
peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
The same thing happened 8 years ago when a worked at a hospital, the vendor
presented a lot of "Pretty" screens but when things were converted off of
the AS400....they had more server related issues than ever before......they
realized maybe they should have given it a touch more thought.
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a
different
Post by Rick Mason
platform....not sure which one yet.
If you aren't sure which one yet, then why not replace the AS/400 with
a new POWER 8? It'll run all that old AS/400 stuff as well as all the
new web stuff you can think of!
Post by Rick Mason
This particular application has one library but many files that drives
the
Post by Rick Mason
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Having done many conversions TO the midrange platform, the things I
find most useful are some sort of data dictionary, a list of the main
tables in the application along with their relationships (primary and
foreign
keys) and an 80-80 list of the first 50 records like CPYF
OUTPUT(*PRINT)
OUTFMT(*HEX) might produce.
Post by Rick Mason
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data
for conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should
the
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Generally speaking, a conversion won't be using every one of your files.
That is, they won't be taking your database and writing a new Windows
(for example) front end to it. They'll be taking your data and
converting it and importing that to their database. And when I say
'data' I don't mean the entire library, I mean your customer file,
your product master file, your sales history file and so on. The
important ones, probably fewer than 50 all told.
Only your chosen vendor can tell you what they need and how to get it
to them. In my vanity, I will say that I believe the better vendors
will take any format you can provide. I got a lot of raw tables -
packed decimal and all but I also got a lot of CSV files where the
data is viewable in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Sometimes those
files are small enough to email around, sometimes FTP is better.
Unless they are a midrange vendor they won't be able to use a SAVLIB on a
tape.
Post by Rick Mason
--buck
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Thanks
Rick
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Nathan Andelin
2014-10-07 16:19:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rick Mason
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date.
With all the IBM i modernization options, there is just no justification
for that point of view. It's very uninformed, and very sad.

Nathan.
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Monnier, Gary
2014-10-07 16:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
There are many ways to view the world. My belief is we need to drop terms like modernization from our vocabulary and things will go better.

Decouple the user interface from the database not modernize the user interface. With all the mobile stuff happening, the PC declining not to mention what is going to replace the browser sooner or later the term "modernize", to my mind anyway, is antiquated.

If the vendor cannot provide an interface to your IBM i server, maybe it is the vendor that needs to "modernize" their product to be database agnostic.

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Nathan Andelin
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 9:20 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Best way to provide conversion data
Post by Rick Mason
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM
system as 'OLD" and out of date.
With all the IBM i modernization options, there is just no justification for that point of view. It's very uninformed, and very sad.

Nathan.
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Holger Scherer
2014-10-07 17:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The problem of most decision makers for moving off „IBM (i)“ is not that they are uninformed. The problem is - they do not want to be informed. They believe (in religious terms) that Windows/Linux is modern and IBM i is not. Even when they know that they do not know, they refuse to accept any consultancy...

-h
Post by Nathan Andelin
With all the IBM i modernization options, there is just no justification
for that point of view. It's very uninformed, and very sad.
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John Yeung
2014-10-07 16:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rick Mason
The same thing happened 8 years ago when a worked at a hospital,
the vendor presented a lot of "Pretty" screens but when things were
converted off of the AS400....they had more server related issues than ever
before......they realized maybe they should have given it a touch more
thought.
Unfortunately, it needs more than just thought. People, even very
smart, rational people, may simply not have accurate information, and
when you don't have accurate information, no amount of thinking can
fix that. (Actually, more thinking can make things worse.)

Perhaps even more unfortunately, people tend not to fully absorb
information that is presented as words. Reading something or being
told something is usually not enough. They have to be *shown*. (Even
that is sometimes not enough, but if you don't have something to show
people, it's *definitely* not enough.)

What I mean is, the only chance the hospital had was to have the right
people see actual software that was both pretty AND running on an i.
(Hmm... do I have the chronology right? If it was 8 years ago, maybe
it was still iSeries?) Maybe your current place of work still has a
chance. You have pretty good hardware already (we just moved up to a
very low-tier POWER7 and it feels like a fire-breathing beast to us),
and there are definitely more "pretty" choices for i now than 8 years
ago. Good luck!

John Y.
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Raul A Jager W
2014-10-08 12:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Show them some inquirys in web pages... from the AS/400
Post by Rick Mason
Hi Buck,
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen
and again...the peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
The same thing happened 8 years ago when a worked at a hospital,
the vendor presented a lot of "Pretty" screens but when things were
converted off of the AS400....they had more server related issues than ever
before......they realized maybe they should have given it a touch more
thought.
Post by Rick Mason
Post by Rick Mason
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a
different
Post by Rick Mason
platform....not sure which one yet.
If you aren't sure which one yet, then why not replace the AS/400 with a
new POWER 8? It'll run all that old AS/400 stuff as well as all the new
web stuff you can think of!
Post by Rick Mason
This particular application has one library but many files that drives
the
Post by Rick Mason
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Having done many conversions TO the midrange platform, the things I find
most useful are some sort of data dictionary, a list of the main tables
in the application along with their relationships (primary and foreign
keys) and an 80-80 list of the first 50 records like CPYF OUTPUT(*PRINT)
OUTFMT(*HEX) might produce.
Post by Rick Mason
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Generally speaking, a conversion won't be using every one of your files.
That is, they won't be taking your database and writing a new Windows
(for example) front end to it. They'll be taking your data and
converting it and importing that to their database. And when I say
'data' I don't mean the entire library, I mean your customer file, your
product master file, your sales history file and so on. The important
ones, probably fewer than 50 all told.
Only your chosen vendor can tell you what they need and how to get it to
them. In my vanity, I will say that I believe the better vendors will
take any format you can provide. I got a lot of raw tables - packed
decimal and all but I also got a lot of CSV files where the data is
viewable in a spreadsheet program like Excel. Sometimes those files are
small enough to email around, sometimes FTP is better. Unless they are
a midrange vendor they won't be able to use a SAVLIB on a tape.
--buck
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Buck Calabro
2014-10-07 16:52:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rick Mason
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen
and again...the peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
They must have a notional budget for this conversion. What if you could
do the conversion for less and keep the Power 7? You and your staff
could do it: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg248185.html or you
could get quotes from any of the IBM i modernisation vendors - there's a
section on modernisation in the back of IBM Systems Magazine this month:
http://www.ibmsystemsmagpowersystemsdigital.com/nxtbooks/ibmsystemsmag/ibmsystems_power_201410/index.php#/46

You may be able to modernise, save money, and keep IBM i all at the same
time. At the very least you can put the research down to due diligence...
--buck
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Raul A Jager W
2014-10-08 12:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Be carefull with the budgets. They tend to grow, and the person who had
the idea will also be able to feed them rather than acepting his mistake.
Post by Buck Calabro
Post by Rick Mason
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen
and again...the peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
They must have a notional budget for this conversion. What if you could
do the conversion for less and keep the Power 7? You and your staff
could do it: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg248185.html or you
could get quotes from any of the IBM i modernisation vendors - there's a
http://www.ibmsystemsmagpowersystemsdigital.com/nxtbooks/ibmsystemsmag/ibmsystems_power_201410/index.php#/46
You may be able to modernise, save money, and keep IBM i all at the same
time. At the very least you can put the research down to due diligence...
--buck
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Steve Landess
2014-10-16 01:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Like this?
http://www.businessinsider.com/national-grid-sap-1-billion-upgrade-cost-2014-10#ixzz3GGQQR4CE

;-D


"Raul A Jager W" wrote in message news:mailman.5154.1412772863.8590.midrange-l-***@public.gmane.org

Be carefull with the budgets. They tend to grow, and the person who had
the idea will also be able to feed them rather than acepting his mistake.
Post by Buck Calabro
Post by Rick Mason
Unfortunately the people making the decisions see any kind of IBM system
as
'OLD" and out of date. To be honest...I am tired of trying to explain
that it is not the hardware that needs updating (Power7 720).....it is
our
current software that is the issue...it is green screen
and again...the peeps want the look and feel of a "Windows" environment.
They must have a notional budget for this conversion. What if you could
do the conversion for less and keep the Power 7? You and your staff
could do it: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/abstracts/sg248185.html or you
could get quotes from any of the IBM i modernisation vendors - there's a
http://www.ibmsystemsmagpowersystemsdigital.com/nxtbooks/ibmsystemsmag/ibmsystems_power_201410/index.php#/46
You may be able to modernise, save money, and keep IBM i all at the same
time. At the very least you can put the research down to due diligence...
--buck
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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-13 17:29:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Since you are interested in migrating this to off platform, then I'll
assume it's fair to say that these people have some familiarity with
systems other than IBM i, true? Hopefully that includes other databases?
Well, then they should feel right at home with IBM i. Because they could
query the system catalog to get a list of all columns in all tables, a
list of all tables, a list of all members in all files, a list of all
views, indexes, etc.
All they have to do is to use ODBC to connect to library QSYS2 and query
things like SYSCOLUMNS, SYSTABLES, SYSVIEWS, SYSINDEXES and more. No need
for DSPFFD, DSPFD, and all that rot.

And if they are tired of the character based interface sometimes used on
other platforms then they're going to love the graphical interface
available on the IBM i. Have them try the iNav interface for all this.
"IF" (and I know that's a hell of a big "if") you set up your tables with
referential integrity then the data diagramming is pretty darn good.

They can also use ODBC to move the data down to their platform of choice.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Rick Mason <rmason62-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: 10/07/2014 10:58 AM
Subject: Best way to provide conversion data
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>



Hi,
We are evaluating replacing one of our AS400 applications with a different
platform....not sure which one yet.
This particular application has one library but many files that drives the
different application modules. Other than the dspfile command...is
there a better way to provide the vendor our files with field information
and what data the file holds?
Also, if this vendor is selected.......when they request our data for
conversion.....should the entire library be sent to them or should the
files be sent individually? FTP I presume??
Have I confused everyone? :)
--
Thanks
Rick
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