Discussion:
daylight savings nov 2 (US)
(too old to reply)
Jim Franz
2014-10-23 16:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the middle
of a backup?
Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job, but
I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of different
dates & times.
http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
Jim Franz
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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-23 17:59:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
No known issue. However,
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzai8/rzai8_net_time.htm
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatikickoff.htm


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Jim Franz <franz9000-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: 10/23/2014 12:48 PM
Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>



Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the middle
of a backup?
Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job,
but
I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of different
dates & times.
http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
Jim Franz
--
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list
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Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.


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Roger Harman
2014-10-23 18:17:40 UTC
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I haven't done admin stuff in a couple of years so the specifics escape me but you can have the system adjust itself (clock speeds up/slows down as needed) so that the time change is gradual and no time repeats itself. Came about in V5R3 as I recall.

Roger Harman
COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on PowerOCEAN User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)

> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:47:51 -0400
> Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> From: franz9000-***@public.gmane.org
> To: midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
>
> Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the middle
> of a backup?
> Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job, but
> I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of different
> dates & times.
> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> Jim Franz
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>

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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-23 18:28:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
That's what I remember too but you'll play heck finding that in Knowledge
Center.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Roger Harman <***@hotmail.com>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-***@midrange.com>
Date: 10/23/2014 02:17 PM
Subject: RE: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-***@midrange.com>



I haven't done admin stuff in a couple of years so the specifics escape me
but you can have the system adjust itself (clock speeds up/slows down as
needed) so that the time change is gradual and no time repeats itself.
Came about in V5R3 as I recall.

Roger Harman
COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on PowerOCEAN
User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)

> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:47:51 -0400
> Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> From: ***@gmail.com
> To: midrange-***@midrange.com
>
> Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
middle
> of a backup?
> Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job,
but
> I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of
different
> dates & times.
> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> Jim Franz
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-***@midrange.com
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-***@midrange.com
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>

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Jim Franz
2014-10-23 18:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Time Adjustment thru iNav
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatitimeadj.htm


I should have mentioned we are not using BRMS (yet) - BRMS has it's own
recommendations.

Jim

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:28 PM, <***@dekko.com> wrote:

> That's what I remember too but you'll play heck finding that in Knowledge
> Center.
>
>
> Rob Berendt
> --
> IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
> Group Dekko
> Dept 1600
> Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
> Garrett, IN 46738
> Ship to: Dock 108
> 6928N 400E
> Kendallville, IN 46755
> http://www.dekko.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Roger Harman <***@hotmail.com>
> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-***@midrange.com>
> Date: 10/23/2014 02:17 PM
> Subject: RE: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-***@midrange.com>
>
>
>
> I haven't done admin stuff in a couple of years so the specifics escape me
> but you can have the system adjust itself (clock speeds up/slows down as
> needed) so that the time change is gradual and no time repeats itself.
> Came about in V5R3 as I recall.
>
> Roger Harman
> COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on PowerOCEAN
> User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)
>
> > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:47:51 -0400
> > Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> > From: ***@gmail.com
> > To: midrange-***@midrange.com
> >
> > Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
> middle
> > of a backup?
> > Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job,
> but
> > I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> > Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> > btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of
> different
> > dates & times.
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> > Jim Franz
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> list
> > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-***@midrange.com
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-***@midrange.com
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
>
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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-23 18:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
That's not the same thing. That's a utility to manually adjust the time.
Normally one uses a time service instead. Which can also be configured
via iNav.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Jim Franz <***@gmail.com>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-***@midrange.com>
Date: 10/23/2014 02:37 PM
Subject: Re: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-***@midrange.com>



Time Adjustment thru iNav
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatitimeadj.htm



I should have mentioned we are not using BRMS (yet) - BRMS has it's own
recommendations.

Jim

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:28 PM, <***@dekko.com> wrote:

> That's what I remember too but you'll play heck finding that in
Knowledge
> Center.
>
>
> Rob Berendt
> --
> IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
> Group Dekko
> Dept 1600
> Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
> Garrett, IN 46738
> Ship to: Dock 108
> 6928N 400E
> Kendallville, IN 46755
> http://www.dekko.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Roger Harman <***@hotmail.com>
> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-***@midrange.com>
> Date: 10/23/2014 02:17 PM
> Subject: RE: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-***@midrange.com>
>
>
>
> I haven't done admin stuff in a couple of years so the specifics escape
me
> but you can have the system adjust itself (clock speeds up/slows down as
> needed) so that the time change is gradual and no time repeats itself.
> Came about in V5R3 as I recall.
>
> Roger Harman
> COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on PowerOCEAN
> User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)
>
> > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:47:51 -0400
> > Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> > From: ***@gmail.com
> > To: midrange-***@midrange.com
> >
> > Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
> middle
> > of a backup?
> > Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any
job,
> but
> > I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> > Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> > btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of
> different
> > dates & times.
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> > Jim Franz
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> list
> > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-***@midrange.com
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-***@midrange.com
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
>
--
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Vernon Hamberg
2014-10-23 18:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Robot also has its own recommendations, as I recall - not sure if
they've changed since my good old days working there.

On 10/23/2014 1:36 PM, Jim Franz wrote:
> Time Adjustment thru iNav
> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatitimeadj.htm
>
>
> I should have mentioned we are not using BRMS (yet) - BRMS has it's own
> recommendations.
>
> Jim
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:28 PM, <***@dekko.com> wrote:
>
>> That's what I remember too but you'll play heck finding that in Knowledge
>> Center.
>>
>>
>> Rob Berendt
>> --
>> IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
>> Group Dekko
>> Dept 1600
>> Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
>> Garrett, IN 46738
>> Ship to: Dock 108
>> 6928N 400E
>> Kendallville, IN 46755
>> http://www.dekko.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Roger Harman <***@hotmail.com>
>> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-***@midrange.com>
>> Date: 10/23/2014 02:17 PM
>> Subject: RE: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
>> Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-***@midrange.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> I haven't done admin stuff in a couple of years so the specifics escape me
>> but you can have the system adjust itself (clock speeds up/slows down as
>> needed) so that the time change is gradual and no time repeats itself.
>> Came about in V5R3 as I recall.
>>
>> Roger Harman
>> COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on PowerOCEAN
>> User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)
>>
>>> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:47:51 -0400
>>> Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
>>> From: ***@gmail.com
>>> To: midrange-***@midrange.com
>>>
>>> Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
>> middle
>>> of a backup?
>>> Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job,
>> but
>>> I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
>>> Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
>>> btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of
>> different
>>> dates & times.
>>> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
>>> Jim Franz
>>> --
>>> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
>> list
>>> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-***@midrange.com
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
>>> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
>>> or email: MIDRANGE-L-***@midrange.com
>>> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
>>> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>>>

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Steinmetz, Paul
2014-10-23 20:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
< Time Adjustment thru iNav
<http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatitimeadj.htm>

Never new this existed.
Anyone currently using this?
How does it work?

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-***@midrange.com] On Behalf Of Jim Franz
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 2:37 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: daylight savings nov 2 (US)

Time Adjustment thru iNav
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatitimeadj.htm


I should have mentioned we are not using BRMS (yet) - BRMS has it's own recommendations.

Jim

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:28 PM, <***@dekko.com> wrote:

> That's what I remember too but you'll play heck finding that in
> Knowledge Center.
>
>
> Rob Berendt
> --
> IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
> Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
> Garrett, IN 46738
> Ship to: Dock 108
> 6928N 400E
> Kendallville, IN 46755
> http://www.dekko.com
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Roger Harman <***@hotmail.com>
> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-***@midrange.com>
> Date: 10/23/2014 02:17 PM
> Subject: RE: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-***@midrange.com>
>
>
>
> I haven't done admin stuff in a couple of years so the specifics
> escape me but you can have the system adjust itself (clock speeds
> up/slows down as
> needed) so that the time change is gradual and no time repeats itself.
> Came about in V5R3 as I recall.
>
> Roger Harman
> COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on
> PowerOCEAN User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)
>
> > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:47:51 -0400
> > Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> > From: ***@gmail.com
> > To: midrange-***@midrange.com
> >
> > Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
> middle
> > of a backup?
> > Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any
> > job,
> but
> > I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> > Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> > btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of
> different
> > dates & times.
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> > Jim Franz
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L)
> > mailing
> list
> > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-***@midrange.com To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-***@midrange.com Before posting, please
> > take a moment to review the archives at
> > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
>
--
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at
Darryl Freinkel
2014-10-23 20:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
We have used it since it was available and it worked like a dream, no
issues. Timestamps could be an issue for some but they are not for us.
Timestamps are down to 6 decimals of a second so there should be no way to
get a duplicate based on the timestamp.

Buyer beware though for jobs that may be time sensitive.

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Steinmetz, Paul <***@pencor.com>
wrote:

> < Time Adjustment thru iNav
> <
> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatitimeadj.htm
> >
>
> Never new this existed.
> Anyone currently using this?
> How does it work?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-***@midrange.com] On Behalf Of
> Jim Franz
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 2:37 PM
> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> Subject: Re: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
>
> Time Adjustment thru iNav
>
> http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatitimeadj.htm
>
>
> I should have mentioned we are not using BRMS (yet) - BRMS has it's own
> recommendations.
>
> Jim
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:28 PM, <***@dekko.com> wrote:
>
> > That's what I remember too but you'll play heck finding that in
> > Knowledge Center.
> >
> >
> > Rob Berendt
> > --
> > IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
> > Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
> > Garrett, IN 46738
> > Ship to: Dock 108
> > 6928N 400E
> > Kendallville, IN 46755
> > http://www.dekko.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Roger Harman <***@hotmail.com>
> > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-***@midrange.com>
> > Date: 10/23/2014 02:17 PM
> > Subject: RE: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> > Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-***@midrange.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > I haven't done admin stuff in a couple of years so the specifics
> > escape me but you can have the system adjust itself (clock speeds
> > up/slows down as
> > needed) so that the time change is gradual and no time repeats itself.
> > Came about in V5R3 as I recall.
> >
> > Roger Harman
> > COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on
> > PowerOCEAN User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:47:51 -0400
> > > Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> > > From: ***@gmail.com
> > > To: midrange-***@midrange.com
> > >
> > > Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
> > middle
> > > of a backup?
> > > Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any
> > > job,
> > but
> > > I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> > > Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> > > btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of
> > different
> > > dates & times.
> > > http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> > > Jim Franz
> > > --
> > > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L)
> > > mailing
> > list
> > > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-***@midrange.com To subscribe,
> > > unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > > or email: MIDRANGE-L-***@midrange.com Before posting, please
> > > take a moment to review the archives at
> > > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> > >
> >
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-***@midrange.com To subscribe,
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>
> --
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>
>


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Darryl Freinkel
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John Yeung
2014-10-23 21:29:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Darryl Freinkel <dhfreinkel-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> We have used it since it was available and it worked like a dream, no
> issues. Timestamps could be an issue for some but they are not for us.
> Timestamps are down to 6 decimals of a second so there should be no way to
> get a duplicate based on the timestamp.

6 decimals (microseconds) is not very much. Very recently there was a
thread on this list discussing generation of unique names, and it
quickly became clear that lots of folks have found that using
timestamps for this purpose was not sufficient for avoiding
collisions.

During "time-stretching" periods (where the system clock advances
slower than real time), you'd have even higher chances of collisions
if you relied (solely) on timestamps.

John Y.
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Steinmetz, Paul
2014-10-23 18:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Jim,

I've been using WRKTIMZON, then select the proper offset.
For US EST - -05:00 > QN0500EST3 EST Eastern Standard Time
No known issues with the time change itelf.

Only known issue I've had is 2. Cleanup tasks.
After the time change, cleanup is off an hour, so clean up must be ended/restarted.
I discovered this one year, questioned why cleanup was off by 1 hour.

We also try not to have any jobs run across the time change.
Or any scheduled jobs in the job change window, in this case 1-2 am. (job could run twice)

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jim Franz
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:48 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)

Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the middle of a backup?
Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job, but I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of different dates & times.
http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
Jim Franz
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Jeff Crosby
2014-10-23 18:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Regarding scheduled jobs (regular WRKJOBSCDE or Advanced Job Scheduler) I
have read on this list various times that jobs scheduled between 2am and
3am will NOT get run twice because the job schedulers use UTC offset or
some such thing.

That being said, I schedule jobs for either 1:59am or 3:01am for my own
peace of mind. One less thing to think about. :)


On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Steinmetz, Paul <PSteinmetz-3xFsXxMo6CTQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

> Jim,
>
> I've been using WRKTIMZON, then select the proper offset.
> For US EST - -05:00 > QN0500EST3 EST Eastern Standard Time
> No known issues with the time change itelf.
>
> Only known issue I've had is 2. Cleanup tasks.
> After the time change, cleanup is off an hour, so clean up must be
> ended/restarted.
> I discovered this one year, questioned why cleanup was off by 1 hour.
>
> We also try not to have any jobs run across the time change.
> Or any scheduled jobs in the job change window, in this case 1-2 am. (job
> could run twice)
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> Jim Franz
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:48 PM
> To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
>
> Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the middle
> of a backup?
> Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job,
> but I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of different
> dates & times.
> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> Jim Franz
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org To subscribe,
> unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org Before posting, please take a
> moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
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> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
>


--
Jeff Crosby
VP Information Systems
UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
P.O. Box 13369
Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
260-422-7531
www.dilgardfoods.com

The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of my
company. Unless I say so.
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Jim Franz
2014-10-23 19:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
But my issue, in the orig post, is that our backup process is running
(midnight to 5 am for all the various saves: savlib, sav, savdlo (with save
active so users and processes are active after we get the checkpoint on the
libraries (savlib).

I've run other systems where the UTC handled it, but this system set to not
change (using "Standard Time" which is wrong.. We will change to QN0500EST3
this weekend and then let it run thru time change.

Rob - Time Maintenance link is
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatisetuptimemain.htm


Jim

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Jeff Crosby <jlcrosby-F80Zt/***@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

> Regarding scheduled jobs (regular WRKJOBSCDE or Advanced Job Scheduler) I
> have read on this list various times that jobs scheduled between 2am and
> 3am will NOT get run twice because the job schedulers use UTC offset or
> some such thing.
>
> That being said, I schedule jobs for either 1:59am or 3:01am for my own
> peace of mind. One less thing to think about. :)
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Steinmetz, Paul <PSteinmetz-3xFsXxMo6CTQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > I've been using WRKTIMZON, then select the proper offset.
> > For US EST - -05:00 > QN0500EST3 EST Eastern Standard Time
> > No known issues with the time change itelf.
> >
> > Only known issue I've had is 2. Cleanup tasks.
> > After the time change, cleanup is off an hour, so clean up must be
> > ended/restarted.
> > I discovered this one year, questioned why cleanup was off by 1 hour.
> >
> > We also try not to have any jobs run across the time change.
> > Or any scheduled jobs in the job change window, in this case 1-2 am. (job
> > could run twice)
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> > Jim Franz
> > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:48 PM
> > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> > Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> >
> > Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
> middle
> > of a backup?
> > Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job,
> > but I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> > Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> > btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of different
> > dates & times.
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> > Jim Franz
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> > list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org Before posting, please take a
> > moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> list
> > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jeff Crosby
> VP Information Systems
> UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
> P.O. Box 13369
> Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
> 260-422-7531
> www.dilgardfoods.com
>
> The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of my
> company. Unless I say so.
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
>
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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-23 19:51:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Yes, but neither talks about how the system slows down or speeds up the
clock.

For example, let's say it is the fall switch. It's about 2am on that
Sunday. Time goes to any absolute crawl. From 1:59am to 2:00am takes
about an hour. That way you never experience the same time twice. Of
course, writing a million records using timestamp as the unique key can be
'interesting'.
I'm not saying this is exactly what is happening. I'm just looking for
something that explains how they do this adjustment.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Jim Franz <franz9000-***@public.gmane.org>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: 10/23/2014 03:33 PM
Subject: Re: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>



But my issue, in the orig post, is that our backup process is running
(midnight to 5 am for all the various saves: savlib, sav, savdlo (with
save
active so users and processes are active after we get the checkpoint on
the
libraries (savlib).

I've run other systems where the UTC handled it, but this system set to
not
change (using "Standard Time" which is wrong.. We will change to
QN0500EST3
this weekend and then let it run thru time change.

Rob - Time Maintenance link is
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/api/content/ssw_ibm_i_72/rzati/rzatisetuptimemain.htm



Jim

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:46 PM, Jeff Crosby <jlcrosby-F80Zt/***@public.gmane.org>
wrote:

> Regarding scheduled jobs (regular WRKJOBSCDE or Advanced Job Scheduler)
I
> have read on this list various times that jobs scheduled between 2am and
> 3am will NOT get run twice because the job schedulers use UTC offset or
> some such thing.
>
> That being said, I schedule jobs for either 1:59am or 3:01am for my own
> peace of mind. One less thing to think about. :)
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Steinmetz, Paul <PSteinmetz-3xFsXxMo6CTQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > I've been using WRKTIMZON, then select the proper offset.
> > For US EST - -05:00 > QN0500EST3 EST Eastern Standard Time
> > No known issues with the time change itelf.
> >
> > Only known issue I've had is 2. Cleanup tasks.
> > After the time change, cleanup is off an hour, so clean up must be
> > ended/restarted.
> > I discovered this one year, questioned why cleanup was off by 1 hour.
> >
> > We also try not to have any jobs run across the time change.
> > Or any scheduled jobs in the job change window, in this case 1-2 am.
(job
> > could run twice)
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> > Jim Franz
> > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:48 PM
> > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> > Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> >
> > Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the
> middle
> > of a backup?
> > Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any
job,
> > but I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> > Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> > btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of
different
> > dates & times.
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> > Jim Franz
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> > list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org To subscribe,
> > unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org Before posting, please take
a
> > moment to review the archives at
http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> list
> > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jeff Crosby
> VP Information Systems
> UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
> P.O. Box 13369
> Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
> 260-422-7531
> www.dilgardfoods.com
>
> The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of my
> company. Unless I say so.
> --
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
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> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
>
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John Yeung
2014-10-23 21:44:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 3:51 PM, <rob-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Yes, but neither talks about how the system slows down or speeds up the
> clock.
>
> For example, let's say it is the fall switch. It's about 2am on that
> Sunday. Time goes to any absolute crawl. From 1:59am to 2:00am takes
> about an hour. That way you never experience the same time twice. Of
> course, writing a million records using timestamp as the unique key can be
> 'interesting'.
> I'm not saying this is exactly what is happening. I'm just looking for
> something that explains how they do this adjustment.

I'm intrigued by this as well. (And frankly a bit nauseated too.)
They do emphasize that it's gradual. Maybe someone should write a
program that goes out and periodically retrieves NIST time and
compares it to system time. (I would do this myself, but (a) I don't
think we use the gradual time change, and (b) I don't think our i is
set up for Internet access.)

John Y.
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CRPence
2014-10-23 22:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 23-Oct-2014 14:51 -0500, rob-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
> Yes, but neither talks about how the system slows down or speeds up
> the clock.
>
> For example, let's say it is the fall switch. It's about 2am on
> that Sunday. Time goes to any absolute crawl. From 1:59am to
> 2:00am takes about an hour. That way you never experience the same
> time twice. Of course, writing a million records using timestamp as
> the unique key can be 'interesting'. I'm not saying this is exactly
> what is happening.
>
> I'm just looking for something that explains how they do this
> adjustment.

In essence, very much not literally, because surely the units of time
being dropped or added are much smaller [although I believe them to be
accurate _proportionally_], the following should elucidate:

IIRC, negative _time_adjustment_ is achieved with one _clock_second_
being dropped, for every three _actual_seconds_ of real-time passing.
Thus to adjust one hour back, requires three hours; effectively,
two-thirds capacity.?

IIRC, positive _time_adjustment_ is achieved with one _clock_second_
being added, for every three _actual_seconds_ of real-time passing.
Thus to adjust one hour forward, requires three hours; effectively,
capacity unaffected.?

Given the nature\base of time measurement in seconds and minutes, the
above two paragraphs of text would be accurate for minute(s) in place of
hour(s).

From what I recall was to happen, though I have no actual experience
nor reference docs, was that the DST changes were to be implemented with
the _time_adjustment_ feature rather than the _time_change_ or
_time_setting_ feature [of yore], at least on whatever OS and hardware
would support the capability to _adjust_ the time. And without that
underlying support, the time modifications still would be effected as a
single _time_change_ of one hour back or forward in an instant; i.e. the
generally undesirable effect of:
CHGSYSAVL QDATETIME 'new_value' /* or perhaps instead, QHOUR */

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Regards, Chuck
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Bruce Vining
2014-10-24 00:28:37 UTC
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Raw Message
Conventions such as DST refer to local time. The shifting of local time for
starting and ending of DST is immediate. Clock adjustments in terms of
speeding up or slowing down the clock refer to the tracking of internal UTC
time within the system. Local time is then calculated as a delta from the
UTC time.

If you "fall back" an hour then local time repeats (though UTC time does
not).

On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 5:00 PM, CRPence <CRPbottle-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On 23-Oct-2014 14:51 -0500, rob-***@public.gmane.org wrote:
>
>> Yes, but neither talks about how the system slows down or speeds up
>> the clock.
>>
>> For example, let's say it is the fall switch. It's about 2am on
>> that Sunday. Time goes to any absolute crawl. From 1:59am to
>> 2:00am takes about an hour. That way you never experience the same
>> time twice. Of course, writing a million records using timestamp as
>> the unique key can be 'interesting'. I'm not saying this is exactly
>> what is happening.
>>
>> I'm just looking for something that explains how they do this
>> adjustment.
>>
>
> In essence, very much not literally, because surely the units of time
> being dropped or added are much smaller [although I believe them to be
> accurate _proportionally_], the following should elucidate:
>
> IIRC, negative _time_adjustment_ is achieved with one _clock_second_
> being dropped, for every three _actual_seconds_ of real-time passing. Thus
> to adjust one hour back, requires three hours; effectively, two-thirds
> capacity.?
>
> IIRC, positive _time_adjustment_ is achieved with one _clock_second_
> being added, for every three _actual_seconds_ of real-time passing. Thus to
> adjust one hour forward, requires three hours; effectively, capacity
> unaffected.?
>
> Given the nature\base of time measurement in seconds and minutes, the
> above two paragraphs of text would be accurate for minute(s) in place of
> hour(s).
>
> From what I recall was to happen, though I have no actual experience nor
> reference docs, was that the DST changes were to be implemented with the
> _time_adjustment_ feature rather than the _time_change_ or _time_setting_
> feature [of yore], at least on whatever OS and hardware would support the
> capability to _adjust_ the time. And without that underlying support, the
> time modifications still would be effected as a single _time_change_ of one
> hour back or forward in an instant; i.e. the generally undesirable effect
> of:
> CHGSYSAVL QDATETIME 'new_value' /* or perhaps instead, QHOUR */
>
> --
> Regards, Chuck
>
> --
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>


--
Regards,
Bruce
www.brucevining.com
www.powercl.com
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Roger Harman
2014-10-23 20:14:24 UTC
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Raw Message
That's what I did also. Avoid the time-shift window completely.

Roger Harman
COMMON Certified Application Developer – ILE RPG on IBM i on PowerOCEAN User Group – Vice-President, Membership (2014)

> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:46:59 -0400
> Subject: Re: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> From: jlcrosby-F80Zt/***@public.gmane.org
> To: midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
>
> Regarding scheduled jobs (regular WRKJOBSCDE or Advanced Job Scheduler) I
> have read on this list various times that jobs scheduled between 2am and
> 3am will NOT get run twice because the job schedulers use UTC offset or
> some such thing.
>
> That being said, I schedule jobs for either 1:59am or 3:01am for my own
> peace of mind. One less thing to think about. :)
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Steinmetz, Paul <PSteinmetz-3xFsXxMo6CTQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Jim,
> >
> > I've been using WRKTIMZON, then select the proper offset.
> > For US EST - -05:00 > QN0500EST3 EST Eastern Standard Time
> > No known issues with the time change itelf.
> >
> > Only known issue I've had is 2. Cleanup tasks.
> > After the time change, cleanup is off an hour, so clean up must be
> > ended/restarted.
> > I discovered this one year, questioned why cleanup was off by 1 hour.
> >
> > We also try not to have any jobs run across the time change.
> > Or any scheduled jobs in the job change window, in this case 1-2 am. (job
> > could run twice)
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
> > Jim Franz
> > Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2014 12:48 PM
> > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> > Subject: daylight savings nov 2 (US)
> >
> > Any known issues (not expecting any) to having system adjust in the middle
> > of a backup?
> > Our prev admin never wanted to have it change in the middle of any job,
> > but I would like to let the OS handle it. V7R1.
> > Not currently sync'd to a sntp server.
> > btw - other parts of the world change UTC offset on a number of different
> > dates & times.
> > http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/events.html
> > Jim Franz
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
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> > moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
> > --
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jeff Crosby
> VP Information Systems
> UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
> P.O. Box 13369
> Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
> 260-422-7531
> www.dilgardfoods.com
>
> The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of my
> company. Unless I say so.
> --
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