Discussion:
IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
(too old to reply)
Ted Breedon
2014-10-20 20:39:36 UTC
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Raw Message
Hi,

I'm installing IBMi 7.1 on IVM or Integrated Virtualization Manager. IVM is what you use when you don't have an HMC. Everything is run from the server, you have a your typical web interface where you manage all your lpars. I have a S814 8286-41A with four 139GB 6GB SAS Drive in RAID 5. The lpar has 4GB, 2 dedicated processors. When I ssh into vios I can see hdisk0 utilization at 100% which makes sense as I'm installing the OS.

Installing the OS has been terribly slow. I have a Power i5 9406-520 that would install with-in 2 hours but my S814 has been going on for more than two! I created the RAID Array using these AIX Instructions and the Standalone Diagnostics Disc.

https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/tutorials/au-aix-raid/
https://www-304.ibm.com/webapp/set2/sas/f/diags/home.html

What's a little perplexing to me is when I've watched videos of IVM being installed and there's no standalone disc needed but this is what IBM instructed me to use. As I am writing this I probably should have used RAID 10 over 5 but should it really be this slow? After I apply CUMs, should I expect a performance increase or did I do something wrong?
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Roberto José Etcheverry Romero
2014-10-21 00:10:11 UTC
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Raw Message
Wait,

Are you using internal storage via IVM for the IBM i partition?
Do you have the complete configuration available? You might have made a
RAID5 with a no cache controller (not up to Power8 on my redbook reading
yet) and running VIOS on top of it. I assume you will not be using any
external SAN storage right?
Post by Ted Breedon
Hi,
I'm installing IBMi 7.1 on IVM or Integrated Virtualization Manager. IVM
is what you use when you don't have an HMC. Everything is run from the
server, you have a your typical web interface where you manage all your
lpars. I have a S814 8286-41A with four 139GB 6GB SAS Drive in RAID 5. The
lpar has 4GB, 2 dedicated processors. When I ssh into vios I can see hdisk0
utilization at 100% which makes sense as I'm installing the OS.
Installing the OS has been terribly slow. I have a Power i5 9406-520 that
would install with-in 2 hours but my S814 has been going on for more than
two! I created the RAID Array using these AIX Instructions and the
Standalone Diagnostics Disc.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/tutorials/au-aix-raid/
https://www-304.ibm.com/webapp/set2/sas/f/diags/home.html
What's a little perplexing to me is when I've watched videos of IVM being
installed and there's no standalone disc needed but this is what IBM
instructed me to use. As I am writing this I probably should have used RAID
10 over 5 but should it really be this slow? After I apply CUMs, should I
expect a performance increase or did I do something wrong?
--
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Jim Oberholtzer
2014-10-21 00:35:13 UTC
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Roberto's correct to ask about the configuration. If that DASD controller
is the one without any cache it was really intended to manage a couple of
pairs of mirrored disk for VIOS partitions. The storage for the IBM i, and
AIX/Linux would ordinarily be on a SAN where the SAN does the cache and such
via a Fibre switch.

If you have the controller with no or very little cache, you can expect
performance on all but very compute intensive tasks to be sub-optimal.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Roberto José Etcheverry Romero
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:10 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance

Wait,

Are you using internal storage via IVM for the IBM i partition?
Do you have the complete configuration available? You might have made a
RAID5 with a no cache controller (not up to Power8 on my redbook reading
yet) and running VIOS on top of it. I assume you will not be using any
external SAN storage right?
Post by Ted Breedon
Hi,
I'm installing IBMi 7.1 on IVM or Integrated Virtualization Manager.
IVM is what you use when you don't have an HMC. Everything is run from
the server, you have a your typical web interface where you manage all
your lpars. I have a S814 8286-41A with four 139GB 6GB SAS Drive in
RAID 5. The lpar has 4GB, 2 dedicated processors. When I ssh into vios
I can see hdisk0 utilization at 100% which makes sense as I'm installing
the OS.
Post by Ted Breedon
Installing the OS has been terribly slow. I have a Power i5 9406-520
that would install with-in 2 hours but my S814 has been going on for
more than two! I created the RAID Array using these AIX Instructions
and the Standalone Diagnostics Disc.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/tutorials/au-aix-raid/
https://www-304.ibm.com/webapp/set2/sas/f/diags/home.html
What's a little perplexing to me is when I've watched videos of IVM
being installed and there's no standalone disc needed but this is what
IBM instructed me to use. As I am writing this I probably should have
used RAID
10 over 5 but should it really be this slow? After I apply CUMs,
should I expect a performance increase or did I do something wrong?
--
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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-21 10:57:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I also tried having VIOS host internal disk to my IBM i lpars.
Disgustingly slow. Pretty much unusable.
So on the CEC disk I have 2 mirrored pairs. One pair for one vios server,
another pair for the other.
IBM i hosts all the expansion disk.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: "Jim Oberholtzer" <midrangel-zbO79nAUJZvJTQUaaPvyeQC/***@public.gmane.org>
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
<midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: 10/20/2014 08:36 PM
Subject: RE: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>



Roberto's correct to ask about the configuration. If that DASD controller
is the one without any cache it was really intended to manage a couple of
pairs of mirrored disk for VIOS partitions. The storage for the IBM i,
and
AIX/Linux would ordinarily be on a SAN where the SAN does the cache and
such
via a Fibre switch.

If you have the controller with no or very little cache, you can expect
performance on all but very compute intensive tasks to be sub-optimal.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
Roberto José Etcheverry Romero
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:10 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance

Wait,

Are you using internal storage via IVM for the IBM i partition?
Do you have the complete configuration available? You might have made a
RAID5 with a no cache controller (not up to Power8 on my redbook reading
yet) and running VIOS on top of it. I assume you will not be using any
external SAN storage right?
Post by Ted Breedon
Hi,
I'm installing IBMi 7.1 on IVM or Integrated Virtualization Manager.
IVM is what you use when you don't have an HMC. Everything is run from
the server, you have a your typical web interface where you manage all
your lpars. I have a S814 8286-41A with four 139GB 6GB SAS Drive in
RAID 5. The lpar has 4GB, 2 dedicated processors. When I ssh into vios
I can see hdisk0 utilization at 100% which makes sense as I'm installing
the OS.
Post by Ted Breedon
Installing the OS has been terribly slow. I have a Power i5 9406-520
that would install with-in 2 hours but my S814 has been going on for
more than two! I created the RAID Array using these AIX Instructions
and the Standalone Diagnostics Disc.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/tutorials/au-aix-raid/
https://www-304.ibm.com/webapp/set2/sas/f/diags/home.html
What's a little perplexing to me is when I've watched videos of IVM
being installed and there's no standalone disc needed but this is what
IBM instructed me to use. As I am writing this I probably should have
used RAID
10 over 5 but should it really be this slow? After I apply CUMs,
should I expect a performance increase or did I do something wrong?
--
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
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visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
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Midrange
2014-10-21 12:07:01 UTC
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Raw Message
"Sub Optimal" yeah I would have to second that!

If our guesses are correct you configuration is also Sub Optimal for IBM i in general hosted or not. LackACache is generally painful no matter how it's stretched and even if you do have cache the four drives are enough for a single small LPAR but that's about it.

To Robs comment about VIOS hosted disk performance, that has been addressed with PTFs to VIOS and I believe IBM I as well. Too long for me to explain completely here (and Sue does it better anyway) but effectively it was excessive I/o to the spindles caused by the 512/520 byte sector handling on 4K drives.

Larry

Sent from my iPad
Post by r***@public.gmane.org
I also tried having VIOS host internal disk to my IBM i lpars.
Disgustingly slow. Pretty much unusable.
So on the CEC disk I have 2 mirrored pairs. One pair for one vios server,
another pair for the other.
IBM i hosts all the expansion disk.
Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
Date: 10/20/2014 08:36 PM
Subject: RE: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
Roberto's correct to ask about the configuration. If that DASD controller
is the one without any cache it was really intended to manage a couple of
pairs of mirrored disk for VIOS partitions. The storage for the IBM i, and
AIX/Linux would ordinarily be on a SAN where the SAN does the cache and such
via a Fibre switch.
If you have the controller with no or very little cache, you can expect
performance on all but very compute intensive tasks to be sub-optimal.
--
Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects
-----Original Message-----
Roberto José Etcheverry Romero
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:10 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
Wait,
Are you using internal storage via IVM for the IBM i partition?
Do you have the complete configuration available? You might have made a
RAID5 with a no cache controller (not up to Power8 on my redbook reading
yet) and running VIOS on top of it. I assume you will not be using any
external SAN storage right?
Post by Ted Breedon
Hi,
I'm installing IBMi 7.1 on IVM or Integrated Virtualization Manager.
IVM is what you use when you don't have an HMC. Everything is run from
the server, you have a your typical web interface where you manage all
your lpars. I have a S814 8286-41A with four 139GB 6GB SAS Drive in
RAID 5. The lpar has 4GB, 2 dedicated processors. When I ssh into vios
I can see hdisk0 utilization at 100% which makes sense as I'm installing
the OS.
Post by Ted Breedon
Installing the OS has been terribly slow. I have a Power i5 9406-520
that would install with-in 2 hours but my S814 has been going on for
more than two! I created the RAID Array using these AIX Instructions
and the Standalone Diagnostics Disc.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/tutorials/au-aix-raid/
https://www-304.ibm.com/webapp/set2/sas/f/diags/home.html
What's a little perplexing to me is when I've watched videos of IVM
being installed and there's no standalone disc needed but this is what
IBM instructed me to use. As I am writing this I probably should have
used RAID
10 over 5 but should it really be this slow? After I apply CUMs,
should I expect a performance increase or did I do something wrong?
--
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
unsubscribe, or change list options,
visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-21 12:31:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
So, how does one find, and install, VIOS PTF's?


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Midrange <midrange-f4GYfadWyJRWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>
Date: 10/21/2014 08:07 AM
Subject: Re: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org>



"Sub Optimal" yeah I would have to second that!

If our guesses are correct you configuration is also Sub Optimal for IBM i
in general hosted or not. LackACache is generally painful no matter how
it's stretched and even if you do have cache the four drives are enough
for a single small LPAR but that's about it.

To Robs comment about VIOS hosted disk performance, that has been
addressed with PTFs to VIOS and I believe IBM I as well. Too long for me
to explain completely here (and Sue does it better anyway) but effectively
it was excessive I/o to the spindles caused by the 512/520 byte sector
handling on 4K drives.

Larry

Sent from my iPad
Post by r***@public.gmane.org
I also tried having VIOS host internal disk to my IBM i lpars.
Disgustingly slow. Pretty much unusable.
So on the CEC disk I have 2 mirrored pairs. One pair for one vios server,
another pair for the other.
IBM i hosts all the expansion disk.
Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
Date: 10/20/2014 08:36 PM
Subject: RE: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
Roberto's correct to ask about the configuration. If that DASD controller
is the one without any cache it was really intended to manage a couple of
pairs of mirrored disk for VIOS partitions. The storage for the IBM i, and
AIX/Linux would ordinarily be on a SAN where the SAN does the cache and such
via a Fibre switch.
If you have the controller with no or very little cache, you can expect
performance on all but very compute intensive tasks to be sub-optimal.
--
Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects
-----Original Message-----
Roberto José Etcheverry Romero
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 7:10 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
Wait,
Are you using internal storage via IVM for the IBM i partition?
Do you have the complete configuration available? You might have made a
RAID5 with a no cache controller (not up to Power8 on my redbook reading
yet) and running VIOS on top of it. I assume you will not be using any
external SAN storage right?
Post by Ted Breedon
Hi,
I'm installing IBMi 7.1 on IVM or Integrated Virtualization Manager.
IVM is what you use when you don't have an HMC. Everything is run from
the server, you have a your typical web interface where you manage all
your lpars. I have a S814 8286-41A with four 139GB 6GB SAS Drive in
RAID 5. The lpar has 4GB, 2 dedicated processors. When I ssh into vios
I can see hdisk0 utilization at 100% which makes sense as I'm
installing
Post by r***@public.gmane.org
the OS.
Post by Ted Breedon
Installing the OS has been terribly slow. I have a Power i5 9406-520
that would install with-in 2 hours but my S814 has been going on for
more than two! I created the RAID Array using these AIX Instructions
and the Standalone Diagnostics Disc.
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/tutorials/au-aix-raid/
https://www-304.ibm.com/webapp/set2/sas/f/diags/home.html
What's a little perplexing to me is when I've watched videos of IVM
being installed and there's no standalone disc needed but this is what
IBM instructed me to use. As I am writing this I probably should have
used RAID
10 over 5 but should it really be this slow? After I apply CUMs,
should I expect a performance increase or did I do something wrong?
--
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
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visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l
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DrFranken
2014-10-21 13:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
So you start with Fix Central..... :-)

Serious yes that's it. You'll need to find the version you're going to
and FP and service level. The version numbering there is a little less
clean that IBM i because they smash all the numbers for what we call
groups like Hiper and TCP etc etc into the version number.

Note the help text there as you can't jump from *REALLYWAYBACK to the
current level in one leap though gladly you do NOT need to do every
update either.

Anyway once you select that pick the bulk FTP download option.

You'll never have so many bffs in your life! Each update to VIOS is a
bff file (like a SAVF on IBM i) and there will be a LOT of them.

You'll need to get them copied over to VIOS with FTP usually and likely
in the OEM environment as padmin will run out of disk space.

Then you run the update command with all the correct parms. It will
process the bffs and give you a message like: "I found 794 files and One
will install, 793 will not install." GREAT yer gonna be at this a
while...... Actually after doing that one it does some setup and the
next run will do about 775 or so. There will be a bunch that don't apply
and near as I can tell they are all for other languages that I don't
speak so I'm cool with that. (Note the numbers are fictional your
numbers may be higher or lower.)



Once you've been through it a couple times it's not horrible, just
different.

Oh and don't forget to back the thing up first in case it goes "bump."


- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com
www.iInTheCloud.com
Post by r***@public.gmane.org
So, how does one find, and install, VIOS PTF's?
Rob Berendt
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Sue Baker
2014-10-23 15:58:59 UTC
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Post by r***@public.gmane.org
So, how does one find, and install, VIOS PTF's?
VIOS doesn't really have "PTFs", it has iFixes. But Fix Central
is the place to look.

However, these fixes will not provide what we call adapter
microcode updates. For those you need to take a separate path.
I discovered a blog or wiki page in developerWorks with info on
how to update all the hardware allocated to a VIOS LPAR via the
HMC. Unfortunately, I can't find the darned article again. It
is much better than using the search for each piece of hardware
in Fix Central method.
--
Sue
IBM Americas Advanced Technical Sales Support (ATS) Power
Systems
Rochester, MN
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r***@public.gmane.org
2014-10-23 16:13:41 UTC
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Those adapter fixes aren't part of the firmware updates?


Rob Berendt
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From: Sue Baker <sue.baker-r/Jw6+rmf7HQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org>
To: midrange-l-Zwy7GipZuJhWk0Htik3J/***@public.gmane.org
Date: 10/23/2014 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: VIOS PTF's Was: IVM IBMi 7.1 Performance
Post by r***@public.gmane.org
So, how does one find, and install, VIOS PTF's?
VIOS doesn't really have "PTFs", it has iFixes. But Fix Central
is the place to look.

However, these fixes will not provide what we call adapter
microcode updates. For those you need to take a separate path.
I discovered a blog or wiki page in developerWorks with info on
how to update all the hardware allocated to a VIOS LPAR via the
HMC. Unfortunately, I can't find the darned article again. It
is much better than using the search for each piece of hardware
in Fix Central method.
--
Sue
IBM Americas Advanced Technical Sales Support (ATS) Power
Systems
Rochester, MN
--
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
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Sue Baker
2014-10-23 20:06:53 UTC
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Post by r***@public.gmane.org
Those adapter fixes aren't part of the firmware updates?
Server firmware updates, update the FSP.
Adapter firmware updates update the adapters.

You use the same process, but have to tick a couple of extra
boxes, look at a couple of additional screens, and you can't do
both at the same time.
--
Sue
IBM Americas Advanced Technical Sales Support (ATS) Power
Systems
Rochester, MN
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Roberto José Etcheverry Romero
2014-10-23 21:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Adapter firmwares had to be done (up until Sue discovered that "use the HMC
for it too" trick which i'm waiting on patiently) using the diag command
from AIX.
And just finding those firmwares is no cakewalk. They are scattered on some
ibm sites, some are on fixcentral, etc.
Post by Sue Baker
Post by r***@public.gmane.org
Those adapter fixes aren't part of the firmware updates?
Server firmware updates, update the FSP.
Adapter firmware updates update the adapters.
You use the same process, but have to tick a couple of extra
boxes, look at a couple of additional screens, and you can't do
both at the same time.
--
Sue
IBM Americas Advanced Technical Sales Support (ATS) Power
Systems
Rochester, MN
--
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